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but a movement which benefits from voters' disenchantment with mr. berlusconi and mr. monty. he agrees with mr. berlusconi on one thing. he says spreads are all just based on speculation. >> translator: the spread is completely detached from the real economy. the spread is mental hallucination created by speculation in the banking sector because half of the italian debt is owned by foreign banks. these banks try to get high rate in order to earn more. so we are a victim of banking speculation, of both foreign and domestic banks. we shall detach from the real economy. we need to stop this vicious cycle of debt that is strangling us. >> reporter: many would argue it's the right time for mario monty to leave the political scene. would you agree? >> translator: he needs to disappear. he was, as the americans say, a bluff, a bubble, a bankruptcy curator. our country went bankrupt last year. half of the debt was in french and german banks. had we gone bankrupt last year, europe would have ended. so they sent in monty to manage the situation in order for the german and french banks to get their money
on in the u.k. so so far, and i've basebaeen following the swiss press, there's no major calls for mr. monti to step down. of course, they weren't necessarily with the bank when all this manipulation happened. someone's going to take responsibility, right? >> yeah. i think this would be really harsh on the -- on the top management. the top management is only in charge since 2011. so clearly after the libor manipulation is over and -- i think we'll see something like 35 traders being charged for this, and i think this is probably what will happen. the management of the investment bank has changed several times since then. and i don't think anything would be necessary right now with the new management. >> dirk, you mentioned, too, broader concern. what happened at barclays spurred basically a restructuring. ubs we're seeing that restructuring take place. what are the prospects for this company going into 2013? >> well, ubs by its own admission expects mid single digit roes for 2013 and 2014. so this is one of the lowest roes in the banking sectorment at t -- sector. they're trading at multiple
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